Note: Dan Girardi Limps Off The Ice At Practice (Update: Appears To be Fine)

12PM: Zipay and Gross note that Girardi is back on the bench at the Rangers scrimmage and is no longer limping

11:59AM: According to Steve Zipay, Rangers defenseman Dan Girardi was seen limping off the ice and favoring his left leg at the Rangers informal practice.

Andrew Gross says that Girardi was favoring his right leg and went limping off after he blocked a shot.




85 comments
WW85
WW85

Cooper vs White:  Who ya taking?

Marvel
Marvel

I'm definetly team Cooper.

But White is growing on me like crazy.

Parker still may be the best of the 3.

It's so damn close.

WW85
WW85

@Marvel #6 though has to be cooper or White if we go WR. Parker goes end of rd 1 no?  If Fowler is there, I can see them going to him. Not sure I agree

Marvel
Marvel

I think Parker is a lock to go top 15, had he not been injured for a portion of the year I think he'd be in the discussion for to WR.

Bklyn Dude
Bklyn Dude

Possible Draft Outcomes all look helpful:

  6)  Amari Cooper - WR

 37) Owamagbe Odighizuwa - DE

 70) Denzel Perryman - MLB

104) Mike Davis - RB

or 

   6) Vic Beasley - OLB

 37) Cameron Erving - OL

 70) TJ Yeldon - RB

104) Tre' McBride - WR

or

trade down in first round to Cleveland for #12, #43, and #189  - for our #6 and #104.

 12)  Randy Gregory - OLB

 37)  Phillip Dorsett - WR

 43)  Stephone Anthony - MLB

 70)  David Johnson - RB

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

Good, let the Bolts reach for Mariota, we'll reach for Rivers.


Rivers to our receivers>>>>Geno-Fitzpatrick to our receivers.

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

@bradysucks


Your draft pick is position controlled and limited to availablitiy, but I feel we can be in the game with just about any team* in a bidding war for, say Rivers.


* Excluding the Raiders and the Redskins. (Daniel Snyder is a good businessman or innovator except in football, the Raiders are just historically dumb.).

bradysucks
bradysucks

@Lloyd Jay Reife 


That is the dream scenario.....


You could give the Jets BOTH Beasley and Fowler and throw in Shane Ray (why not?)  and it still won't do as much good as adding a franchise QB to the Jets who limits turnovers and throws 25 or more touchdowns a season

cpl593h
cpl593h

@Lloyd Jay Reife 

I would be down with that, but I doubt anyone who is committed to trading up for Mariota will take the risk of waiting to see if he drops to 6. #2 is the landing spot for the Chargers with Rivers as the bait. And I have no idea why anyone would expect Rivers will want to come to NY (and therefore sign an extension) if he doesn't want to move to L.A. Therefore, IMHO if the Chargers trade up, it will be with the Titans.

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

@cpl593h

Agreed. I'm implying if Tennessee allows SD to decide to move up at a guaranteed steep price for said move.

Yes Winston is about a lock to go to #1 Tampa Bay.

Joe B.
Joe B.

@cpl593h @Lloyd Jay Reife Well, New York rather New Jersey is closer to his home state and it has a lot of things to offer;  hunting, fishing and all that good stuff. He literally wouldn't have to take a step in NYC once if he didn't want to. 

cpl593h
cpl593h

@marc55 

He did everything he was asked to, for the most part, and handled Gregory pretty well with one or two small exceptions. Flowers is a very good and somewhat underrated LT prospect, with good balance, hand punch and the arm length you look for in a pass protector. Was solid getting to the 2nd level in the run game too. Has all the tools. He'll be value in the 2nd half of the 1st round. Could be the #2 LT prospect on the board after Collins, ahead of Peat.

marc55
marc55

@cpl593h @marc55 I agree that I like Flowers, but Gregory's ability to effectively bull rush him was impressive, and it helps fight against the Maybin comparison I hear too often from commenters on here.

cpl593h
cpl593h

@marc55 @cpl593h 

Well, Gregory is definitely no Aaron Maybin, but overall I thought Flowers dealt with him pretty effectively. Gregory is highly ranked for a reason. He's long, strong and fast for his size. I prefer Beastly and Fowler, but Gregory is good.

marc55
marc55

@cpl593h @marc55 If it wasn't for the off the field stuff, I would rank Gregory as the top edge guy, and probably around the top 5.


I really do like Flowers as a RT, and it's too bad, as you put it above, we probably will not have a chance to draft him.

BDarc23
BDarc23

@marc55 @cpl593h Gregory smoking pot when he knew he was getting tested is a major major red flag. This guy is just too likely to get suspended in the NFL and become a wasted pick even though he will probably play well when he plays. I would be worried he is an addict if I was an NFL team.

a57se
a57se

In the Polian piece above they talk about how bunched the draft prospects are.

That means none of them stand out as BETTER players than their peers. In this case, applying some thought to your drafft should rule.

If there is no difference between the Top Edge Rysher, WR and Ol on your board, how do you break the tie?

One way is need which Macc has pretty much addressed in Free Agency.  You can quibble about which position is more of a need but they have ALL been addressed. 

Another way is to llook at the depth of the different positions and see if you can get value at those positions later in the draft thus lessening the need to take one early. Doing this makes it clear there is plenty of WR talent later in the draft so that lessens the need to draft one early.  There are a few possible Edge rushers that will be on the board in the 2nd round and depending on how you value them, they could be had just like Offensive linemen. There are more project O'linemen than project Edge rushers.

To me, I weigh all of this and shade the needs of the team based on age of the current roster and strength of the position to determine what I will target.

When I do that, I end up with the following priority at 6:

1. QB

2. OL

3. Edge Rusher

4. WR


a57se
a57se

If you consider me an idiot for this, so be it...

bradysucks
bradysucks

@a57se 


WR is a need....


Marshall is over 30 and was badly injured last year....



Marvel
Marvel

So you literally just made up an order based off personal opinion.

Seems ... Fair

Againg , playing "what if" for rounds 2,3,4 while pick #6 has to be made.... Is oh so silly .

I'm actually disappointed in what's happening around here.

(Btw all things will never be equal at pick 6, you have to man up and pick the better player don't look for an out just in case you choose wrong)

cpl593h
cpl593h

@a57se 

Well a rational idiot, to be sure, which is all I aspire to be. I'm not sure about the initial premise (that there is no difference between the top WR, OLB and OL), but otherwise I share your perspective pretty closely. 


What is so intriguing about this draft for us is the growing realization that, given his pre-draft moves in free agency to address all roster holes, AND given our lack of information about what Macc likes to do on draft day when he's the one in charge of the bat phone, virtually ANYTHING can happen. It is hard to rule out trading up, trading down, or standing pat and taking ANY of the consensus top 6-9 players. We just don't know. I'm glad I work in Chicago and will be attending the 1st round with one of my sons, who also works downtown. It should be very exciting to watch unfold!

Marvel
Marvel

It's ok , I was confused when I read your post at first too. You'll get it eventually.

:)

a57se
a57se

@cpl593h @a57se 

I'll take being a rational idiot as a compliment!

Enjoy the draft in Chicago!

marc55
marc55

@a57se This is pretty sound reasoning, but I have more question marks about the top offensive lineman (fill in the blank with your favorite guy) being able to play LT or even RT than I do with the WRs being able to succeed on the outside, so I'm not entirely convinced by the close gap argument Polian makes.  With that said, if you assume he is correct, I like your logic.


In regards to my offensive lineman opinion , you have made the point recently that interior play has become more important, and I agree with that, especially in this division, but I'm still not sure that makes drafting a guard at 6 worth it.

cpl593h
cpl593h

@bradysucks @a57se @cpl593h 

I do read daily but don't have the time to comment often. I also try to stay out of flame wars, which appear to be a regular feature of this community.

bradysucks
bradysucks

@cpl593h @bradysucks @a57se 


Not really.....57 and I don't argue that much....It's mostly good natured...and way better than it once was....


There are definitely some long standing feuds on this blog......I just picture everyone in clown makeup when they go postal with their football tirades (which probably isn't a stretch for some of these guys)

BDarc23
BDarc23

@cpl593h @a57se The draft should be fun to go to for a Jets fan this year...Trade up, stay at 6 or trade down. All scenarios will be a great discussion.

marc55
marc55

@Lloyd Jay Reife @a57se @bradysucks I'm not ready to write off Geno, even though it is a long shot.


Most people who want him gone would agree that you need to be patient with young QBs, that it takes QBs longer to transition from the spread to the NFL, and that young people generally still need to mature after college.


Yes, he has been awful to watch at times, but let us see where he is at this year before writing him off completely.

bradysucks
bradysucks

@Lloyd Jay Reife @a57se @bradysucks 

The last I checked the Broncos had Demarius Thomas and Decker before they had Peyton Manning....


By your logic they should have had Mr. Magoo and Carrot Top as their WR's before bringing in Manning....


Your premise here is not very logical because in reality there are no rules....You bring in good players when you have the opportunity and keep putting together the puzzle pieces

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

@bradysucks



I guess my "illogic" is due to being a Jets fan since Mike Talafiero was the Jets QB right before Namath.

Impatience is not my virtue . 

Sorry.  

A Jet for life regardless of said impatience.

Marvel
Marvel

Again , this is starting to become some of the worst logic in football history. (Position x is deep so wait and draft it later) ...

You go with the better player, you don't sacrafice talent at 6 because of future rounds , that's literally the dumbest thing I've ever read. Now we are predicting who will be available later on ?? lol .. And a lot of ppl on this blog happen to be ok with that. It went from BPA for 6 + years (my time here) to"well take this guy because his position drops off harder " ... Wtf ?

And it's also false. After round 1 u basically have #3 WRs , just like after round 1 u probably have part time pass rushers. It's even.

Bottom line ? Go with the better player especially since both positions (WR/Rusher) are of some need.

Cooper/White/Parker> the pass rushers .. It's that simple.

Passing on Cooper or White for an iffy pass rusher is what gets GMs fired.

Can't believe what's been going on with this sound here.

eurojet
eurojet

I know. I was just saying

Marcus Armstrong
Marcus Armstrong

No, the logic is sound. It's pretty basic game theory, actually.

bradysucks
bradysucks

@Marcus Armstrong 

The Jets could have the number 1 defense in the NFL in 2015 and be a bottom 3 passing offense for the 4th straight year ....4th straight year (twice for emphasis)....and I still think people on this blog would want to draft a defender in 2016 on round 1....


It tickles me....


Everyone is going to have their own opinion....which is fine....

eurojet
eurojet

Kick every draft board that put a second round grade on Hundley into the ton + fire the whole scouting department. Dude is straight up trash

a57se
a57se

@Marvel 

And that may well be Vic Beasley or brandon Scherff and NOT one of the WR's...

or even a QB.

Marvel
Marvel

Now THIS is a solid point..

IF you think the Rusher/other player is better , I have no problem with that. Many are just saying screw WR because you can get one later, regardless of if they see the WR as more talented. That's what I have a problem with.

With that being said. The WRs are still better imo. Cooper and White are top talents imo. But if one disagrees it's ok.

bradysucks
bradysucks

@Marvel 


It's not black and white with no gray...


You take the best player for your team.....If you have Aaron Rodgers on your team and you can choose between a QB in round 2 like Hundley or an o-lineman and both are close in talent with Hundley ranked one spot higher on your board by your logic you'd choose Hundley......which wouldn't necessarily be smart

bradysucks
bradysucks

@eurojet 


I am not a Hundley fan either but that wasn't the point I was making....

hazard2012
hazard2012

@Marvel


Respectively disagree, Marvel.  I think you' approach is 100% correct IF there is a great differential between the various players being considered, but it's much more likely they're as closely rated and ranked on the Jets draft board as they are everywhere else.   


Scherff, Collins, Cooper, White, Beasley & Fowler are all players who might be there for us at #6.    If there's a big gap in how one or two of them are rated and ranked on our board over the others then yes, I agree with you, go for the head-and-shoulders BPA.      


BUT, if there ISN'T a big difference in how you've rated and ranked these six then I'd argue it makes perfect sense to also look ahead to later rounds, and who/what you might be considering there, with the idea of maximizing your overall value of multiple picks at multiple positions, not just one.      


You also know that how you intend to use a player factors into the equation.    Part of my 'logic' in possibly passing on say an Amari Cooper in the first is that he simply isn't going to supplant either Marshall or Decker as our #1 & 2 WR this season.   He's not likely to see more playing time or make any more catches than say a Lockett, McBride or Hardy, etc. drafted in the 3rd or 4th round.    


I'm not arguing they're necessarily as good as Cooper, though they potentially could be, but that they will have the same impact on the team in it's current guise every bit as much as will Cooper...and...by passing on a WR in the first rounds I am then able to tap into quality talent, potential BPA at positions of need, that I might otherwise have missed out on.


Lots of things get GM's fired, but the above approach isn't one of them ...unless you pick poorly; at which time it's not the approach that's flawed, it's the evaluation of talent and fit.    



marc55
marc55

@Marvel The point is only relevent when players are closely ranked / there is no clear BPA available, which is how most people on here use it.


No one on here really advocates for taking a much worse player just because of depth.

Marvel
Marvel

It's not that close imo. I think ppl want to cover all bases in case player x doesn't pan out. "Well we all thought he was a top guy" type of thing.

I'm probably reaching but I feel the WR depth is just blinding ppl to the fact that the top end talent at that position is very elite. The top end talent at edge rusher is good not elite, so I don't see the conflict tbh.

marc55
marc55

@Marvel I can't disagree with that.  If both QBs are gone, my first preference is Cooper.  If Cooper is gone though, I think the prospect ranking does get a little tighter though.

Marvel
Marvel

It was only Cooper for me too (then throw in Rushers etc) but the more I watch White the more I like him. He has a fire in him, I know it's reaching a bit but that can go a long way at the Next lever. (To go along with the talent, the kid goes up and gets the rock, haven't seen that since Braylon :-) )

hazard2012
hazard2012

@Marvel


There's no way to predict injuries, but should either Marshall or Decker go down I believe one of the top later-round guys can at least fill the void and hold the fort.   I'm not saying they'll be my choice of future #1...but they'll do just fine until we can find a more suitable replacement; probably in future drafts.   


You're right, the edge rusher probably won't be an every-down player, either, at least not at first, but they could have a big impact on the team when they're in..  Just my gut guess, but I think an edge rusher would see more PT than a rookie slot receiver.  


I do think that Scherff or Collins however have a very good chance of starting on our OL at G.   They might actually see the most playing time of all likely prospects.   If I passed on an edge rusher in the first it would probably be for them, and not a WR.


We all have our preferences and approaches, and I'm certainly not saying mine is the best and certainly not the only one possible   I can see a scenario where we get Cooper or other WR in the first and our edge rusher in the 2nd, etc.   


It can work either way.  Like you said, it's fun (and I'd add, informative) to debate and look at different views/approaches.   I hope the same kind of open exchange is happening inside the Jets draft war room.

marc55
marc55

@Marvel Agreed, he's a really aggressive player, and I would be fine with him at 6.

hazard2012
hazard2012

@Marvel


Totally agree with you here.   Of the top three WR's, I actually like Cooper least.  White and Parker are simply bigger, faster, with much larger catch radius and better ability to win contested balls.     If I'm looking for a future #1...to eventually replace Marshall, I'm picking White or Parker over Cooper.  

hazard2012
hazard2012

@BDarc23 @hazard2012 @Marvel


Yeah, I like Strong a lot, too.   And he seems to be falling a little, for some reason...probably because Perriman is rising (though I don't care for Perriman much at all.)


Would love to get Strong in the 2nd round.    I'd actually consider Agholor there, as well...though maybe after moving down a few slots if possible.   

BDarc23
BDarc23

@hazard2012 @Marvel I think there is a great chance all 3 of Cooper, White, Parker will be really good just like last years top guys. Probably a couple of other too like Strong.

BDarc23
BDarc23

@hazard2012 @BDarc23 @Marvel Perriman is the guy that ran the crazy fast 40 pro day?  That has Darrius Hayward Bey written all over it.  Landing Strong in the 2nd would be amazing if not getting Cooper/White with pick 6.

marc55
marc55

@BDarc23 @hazard2012 @Marvel I'm big on Dorsett and Devin Smith too.  Both are electrifying talents, and would compliment the size we already have at the position.

hazard2012
hazard2012

@marc55 @BDarc23 @hazard2012 @Marvel


Agree on Dorsett, but not so much Devin Smith because he seems to drop a lot of catchable balls...same is true of Perriman and Coates.    Not sure I'd spend #37 on Dorsett, but boy would I love to add his speed to our O.             

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

@Marvel

Pardon me if I nit pick a bit as well.

Would it be possible if you "aim" your reply to the person you are replying to?

It's much easier to guide the flow of your cogent remarks.

Thank you.


bradysucks
bradysucks

Cooper/White/Parker are the smart pick at 6 whether your philosophy is draft based on BPA or NEED. It's that simple

Jets pass offense has been terrible and lacks a #1 type receiver under the age of 30 .....There is your NEED argument as Marshall is over 30 and was badly injured last year

BPA - Most draft analysts have stated that both Kevin White & Amari Cooper are top 6 players in this draft class which is considered weak in terms of the number of elite players in it

Marvel
Marvel

@Marcus /57

You take the better player. I mean it doesn't get much simpler.

Marvel
Marvel

I'm gonna nitpick a couple things.

First, you say Cooper/White won't supplant Marsh/Deck, and that a later WR could fill said role.

But the edge Rusher won't be an every down player , they will more than likely be a liability in the run game. The OL is anyone's guess as to how he will get PT.

I'm pretty set in my ways on this but it's still fun to debate fwiw. I just view Cooper/White as the potential #1 WRs, immediate contributors , and the BPAs at 6 so I can't pass .

Not fair to look ahead but if Marsh or Deck go down its gonna be a replay of each of the last 4 seasons. Us wondering why tf Kerley is starting again lol.

cpl593h
cpl593h

@Marvel 

From my perspective,"take the better player" is the whole crux of the problem, since we are comparing a WR to a OLB to a OT, and then there's the QB question. How do you definitively call one player "the best" without some sort of context, when they all play vastly different positions, on completely different teams, against mostly different teams? Is there a more subjective evaluation than this very one? 

Then throw in two more contexts: positional need and positional draft strength (this is going back to 57's list elsewhere in the thread). "Best player" is always the goal, but there's really very little that is simple about it.

Marvel
Marvel

Agholor in round 2 baby. Dude is the best of the rest.

And he has return skills.

hazard2012
hazard2012

@Marvel


BIG value in any of the quality WR's who can also return...that definitely includes Agholor at top of that list.   Lockett and McBride also worth noting in that regard a round or so later.