Read: How Not Trading For Pavel Bure Got Neil Smith Fired

In the book “Behind The Moves,” Jason Farris spoke with NHL General Managers past and present about how they conduct business and to tell stories about their lives in hockey.

Neil Smith talks about how he had a chance at Pavel Bure but didn’t want to pay the price.

“There was a deal on the table for Pavel Bure when [Brian] Burke was in Vancouver, and he was shopping Bure to us and Florida….Burkie wanted [Manny] Malholtra, [Dan] Cloutier, and some other young guy which was like stripping me of what I thought at the time were my best guys. I was trying to rebuild the team, and [Wayne] Gretzky was on the team and now Pavel Bure was available, so our owners here wanted me to do everything I could to get Bure. They were new owners and they didn’t understand that you had to do [to rebuild]. I was like, ‘No fucking way. I don’t want this guy. Even if I could get him on the team for free, I’m not going to do it.’…That’s what ultimately led to the end of me [as Rangers GM]. [Owners Charles and James Dolan] didn’t analyze the club to see [where I had] brought it since 1989. They just said, ‘Today. Today. Today.’….They went out and got Glen [Sather] and paid him a bunch of money, and he got rid of all of my young guys and brought in all old guys. And they missed the playoffs for four more years.”

Bure was traded to Florida in 1999 with Bret Hedican, Brad Ference and a third round pick for Ed Jovanovski, Dave Gagner, Mike Brown, Kevin Weekes and Florida’s first round pick in 2000.

You can order the book here.




143 comments
Neil Herschkowitz
Neil Herschkowitz

I'm not sure I can accurately find a thread that this post comfortably fits in. I have been a Jets fan since 1967  and I have been loyal and dedicated to my team. This includes periods where I lived in Florida before sports bars, Sunday ticket and the internet.

I used to drive over to the local convenience store in Jupiter, Florida on Monday morning to pick up all the New York papers to read about my team. Funny thing was that sometimes I would run into Tim Mara or even  Parcells at that convenience store as they were my neighbors. They were accessible, and over the years we became acquaintances.

Now of course we have access to every game, and I can go to this site, or over to Sports Spyder which I have both on my smartphone...and which I seem to spend an inordinate amount of time.

It would seem our team always finds some way to break our hearts. A team that gives its fans hope, only to take that hope away. A team that we relate to because either we grew up with them, or we love underdogs. A blue collar meat and potatoes team with heart and moxy.

This season, a season that the world at large dismissed our team, the people who populate this blog knew we had a team that could win some games, and surprise many people. I stepped up and put in writing we would win between 7 and 9 games before game 1. I took great pleasure when we exceeded expectations, and proved our many critics wrong.

It didn't seem bold or foolish because I though our D would keep us in games,and that we had a much better OC. That there was just enough at skill positions to win some games.

We did, and hopes soared. There were injury issues, and rookie problems. The bye week came, and we went straight into the crapper.  

Now, that's where my problems with Rex, and Geno  begins. Actually my problem with Rex this season began when he got Sanchez injured by stupidity in pre season. He was not near ready, and he needed to sit and learn for as long as it took this season.

My other issues with Rex stem from continuing loyalty to spent players like Reed, or his refusal to sit Cro when he played injured and was ineffective. For all of the defensive acumen Rex is supposed to have his D can't get off the field on third down,and gave up  home runs on a regular basis.

His team's lack discipline, turn the ball over, and can't win two in a row. He is also not perceived as having wisdom on offense, and as being one denominational.

Yes, I like him, and the change he installed to the culture, and relevance of our team, but I believe it's time for a change.

Statistics in the NFL don't quite add up. Depending on who you play, when you play them, injuries and weather conditions there are far to many variables fir accuracy. A team that plays in a dome in the NFC East certainly can't be compared to a team that plays outdoors in th AFC East. Playing a mediocre team like what Miami was in the beginning of the season isn't the same as playing them now. When they determine statistics with such diverse sampling it doesn't mean much to me.

No, I watch my team, and we seem to have similar problems since Rex arrived. I just don't see him as our head coach. I might give Geno more time if MM remains offensive coordinator. The winds of change are blowing in a win now world.

I'm 65 years old, and I love my Jets. They're a big part of my life, and I sure would like to see them win one more super bowl in my lifetime ...we all would.

rstysanchz
rstysanchz

the 3 things geno must work on is staring down receivers,finding his checkdowns quicker,and his footwork...im hoping mm is seeing improvement in one some or all of these things...if you look at genos college stats especially his ints i knew their would be some growing pains but i thought we were getting the anti sanchez when it came to ints 

BILLY
BILLY

To say that there is room for growth in Geno's game is an understatement.

joemustgo
joemustgo

As with the decision about whether to retain Rex, I suspect Idzik already made up his mind and the last 2 game won't change anything. 

BDarc23
BDarc23

Geno was horrible last week. Saying he had a modest showing is being kind. Most of his stats came when the game was over and Carolina was playing back.  Do we have any evidence that Geno is improving? My eyes aren't seeing it and I don't think there are any stats that are showing it.

marshrandy
marshrandy

It will be interesting what Mariota ends up doing, even though he said he's returning to school he applied for a draft stock evaluation, I bet if he hears he's a top-5 or so pick he enters the draft 

Neil Herschkowitz
Neil Herschkowitz

It's troubling that we went from one turnover machine to another. There are other rookies that don't turn the ball over as much and cost their team so many games.

I personally do not see enough upside to balance out poor decision making by Geno. I see him making the same mistakes he made early on this season over and over.

Just like Sanchez. It's time for a new QB, and head coach with a stronger offensive mindset. A GM that drafts skill position playmakers might help as well.

N

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

@Neil Herschkowitz


  I respect your opinion and your love for the jets. I just have one question and I do not mean any disrespect but..


If the jets meet your hopeful expectations for the season, how can you fault them?

   They played meaningful games into December, and almost everyone would have signed up for that during the offseason. I'm not excusing them for 3 years of no playoffs, and I thought for sure we'd make the playoffs at 5-4. We did not and it sucked, but this year was enough for me to give Rex more time.


   Everyone harps on Geno, Winters, and the O, but a ton of good things happened this year. The D's Front 7, they are very young and very good, Mo-24, Boss Hog- 23, Snacks-25, Coples-23, and Davis is only 24. Mo is the most seasoned at THREE years.  On O: Howard has become a very good RT. Ivory proved to be a Bell Cow, and Kerely emerged as JCO jr. Rex took over a win now team and almost went to two.  The team got old, Sanchez didn't step it up and Rex has since have been rebuilding it, I wanna see him finish it.



SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57seIf MM mentioned QBs like Eli, Peyton, Aikman or Luck, all of whom had turnover issues as rookies, you'd mock him for it.  So, I'm not sure no. 2 would be all that productive.  No. 3 would depend a lot upon who the GM brings in because, as I've said since before the season started, MM's system relies upon a dynamic pass-catching 3-down RB, who is spelled by a bruiser.  We have the latter, not the former.  So, I don't think MM could answer no. 3 without potentially criticizing the boss because for Geno to get better, he needs better players, or at least players that fit MM's system.  No. 4 would be entirely speculative and should elicit a non-response "we'll know when we see it."  As for no. 5, that's, again, the GM's call.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I'd be very interested to see the offseason program Marty gives Geno. Studying, fundementals, all of it. 

Bent
Bent

@a57se Hopefully "more certain than I was before" doesn't represent an upgrade from "no chance" to "probably not".

buddyryan
buddyryan

@BDarc23 I see improvement compared to the Titans, Bills and Dolphins games, but we the fans can't see what is going on in practice.  Could be Marty is seeing Geno taking a step forward in practice and the film room.

Brendan
Brendan

@BDarc23 Saying he was horrible is being unduly harsh. He wasn't horrible, he had a rookie performance with both good and bad parts. 

buddyryan
buddyryan

@Neil HerschkowitzI have my concerns but Geno definitely deserves more time.  Let's see what he can do with some more weapons and another season learning Marty Ball

Brendan
Brendan

@Neil Herschkowitz Rookies are turnover prone. Even Luck had 23 turnovers last year, let's not pretend it's a rarity for this to happen. 

Neil Herschkowitz
Neil Herschkowitz

I am tired of almosts, close, improved, building, and other things that are not winning and now. I've heard all the excuses.

Three years with no playoffs is failure. In business, life and sports... results are what we get paid for.

What will be the excuses next year? Who is to be held accountable?

Rex won mostly with Mangini guys his first two years. His D can't get off the field and can't defend the pass. His O isn't his and they are impotent.

His team got blown out by Buffalo and Tennessee...mediocre team's at best. He didn't take Holmes to task for running his big mouth before the Panthers game.

Rex needs to be gone now.

1969JAN12th
1969JAN12th

@Brendan @a57se Lets hope that Marty is still the OC and is able to give Geno an off-season program to work on....Schotty, Sparano, Marty, and ? in 4 years...whew ! ...wonder what the record is for teams changing OCs ? Hope we don't have to test that.

t__k
t__k

@Brendan I agree.  How does MM go about teaching him how to 1. Read a defense at the LOS.  2.  Work through his progressions. 3. When to run/check down 4. Footwork.  (in no particular order)


Just once in my life time I want to see a Jet's QB OWN an offense.  I want to see him be able to direct traffic, run the hurry up, change the play at the LOS, use his check downs, and know when to take shots down the field.

Neil Herschkowitz
Neil Herschkowitz

Oh, he was the lowest rated QB in the entire NFL, and had the most turnovers... But somehow he doesn't suck.

So if we extrapolate to next year he will suck a little less. Sounds great.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se@BDarc23He's playing more decisively and he's running more effectively.  When to checkdown sounds like an easy skill to master to us.  Ask a QB that has the arm strength to drive the ball downfield if it's that easy.  Favre never mastered it, Peyton still suffers from not taking it and so does Eli.  Guys like Brady, Alex Smith, Brees, Montana, etc. were/are great at taking what the defense gives them.  It's not as easy to do as it sounds.

gbrownn
gbrownn

I dont understand the logic when people compare Geno turnovers to Sanchez's. It's like they forget the guy had 4 NFL season under his belt and Geno has 14 games. I swear it's ESPNs fault, It's all about potrayal in the media. Fire REX!!, its a Circus! Thats all I see on there now. Luck was a turnover prone rookie(like most) but you wouldnt hear anything about that. All you see is his game winning comebacks and what  not. Maybe its the New York market.

1969JAN12th
1969JAN12th

@Neil Herschkowitz 

"Keep the coordinators and coaches"....unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. A new head coach will bring in his own people. Marty will be gone and we will have 4 OCs in 4 years....and yes, we will be starting over. Not saying that Rex is the best HC in the NFL; but I have read about some of the replacement possibilities and they are not pretty. I think the better argument for NOT keeping Rex is that the last two years we lost the last three games of the season...and this year we could be headed for losses in the last 6 of 7. On the other hand our defense is one of the betters Ds...so at least one side of the ball is ready to play at a high level for a few years. Keep in mind that with a new HC, our D (without Rex) might falter and we would have neither offense or defense worth much. I say give Rex another year with both FA and drafted offensive weapons. Sometimes continuity is the best thing a team can do. 

( I also lived in Florida from 1965-1970 and was in the Orange Bowl on Jan. 12th, 1969).

Neil Herschkowitz
Neil Herschkowitz

Cut losses,and move on. Why continue to waste time with aol program that doesn't work?

Keep the coordinators and coaches.Give Geno serious veteran competition and draft well.

Get a head coach that stops sucking up to the players non stop,but who is fair,and even handed. A coach that in talks a system that shows understanding if both sides of the ball. A consistency that is based on structure and discipline.

This team faded away at the end instead of getting better, and has for three years now.

It's time for a new HC, and we should have done so before this season started.

DrJonathanReefer
DrJonathanReefer

Fire Rex and start all over? So fire Rex blow it up and take another 3 years for another coach to bring in all the players they want to build the team in their vision. We haven't won in so long e ause we have a new head coach ever 4 years and are always starting over and over and over again. You think you'd all be sick of it.

t__k
t__k

@Brendan I knew someone would either say Vinny or Chad! ...Chad had the cerebral part down.  Such a noodle arm though.  

Bent
Bent

@a57se @Bent Far be it for the media to even attempt to give comments any context.

Bent
Bent

@a57se @Bent There could be many reasons why he would make this comment.  To boost his trade value, to motivate him, to motivate Simms, to send a smokescreen about their offseason plans, to brown-nose Idzik...


...or maybe, just maybe, he has seen enough promise in Geno that he's hopeful about his future.


Fingers crossed.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@Bent@SackDance99@a57se@Brendan@BDarc23I was particularly disappointed with the game plan against Buffalo after the bye.  It seemed to me that the bye week and break was a good time to open up the offense and catch the Bills by surprise.  Instead, Pettine knew Rex's nature and came up with a game plan like he knew Rex would go conservative, despite the Jets' success against the Bills allowing Geno to run the full offense (it was the defense and horrendous penalty total that made the first game far closer than it should've been).


My rant after the second Bills game was exactly what I said about Sanchez.  Either let the QB run the offense or get one who can because 3 yards and a cloud of dust is both predictable and doomed for failure.  IMO, it's QB abuse to run into 8 men in the box for little or no gain and then expect the QB to pick up the 1st down in 2nd and long or 3rd and long.  Especially when the QB is a rookie and the blitz will be coming with the idea to exploit the rookie LG.

Bent
Bent

@SackDance99 @a57se @Brendan @BDarc23  "Rex admitted that he made a mistake in not letting Geno continue running the complete offense."


That was my fault for wondering aloud during a BGA in September whether simplifying things for him would give the Jets the best chance to win (and maybe it did, but then it made transitioning towards a more rounded gameplan later in the year more tough).

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se@SackDance99@Brendan@BDarc23Not only shorts, in pads in practice.  We just disagree about how he reacts under fire.  IMO, he's gotten much better as the season went on and, more importantly, Rex admitted that he made a mistake in not letting Geno continue running the complete offense.  There's 2 games left, so I still want to see whether, like Eli (and I'm not comparing Geno to Eli, just setting forth a fact), Geno's last 2 games are his best of his rookie season.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se@SackDance99@Brendan@BDarc23I don't think that's fair.  I look at Geno's games and I see both typical rookie errors and mechanical/technical errors.  IMO, the former outweigh the latter.  Thus, experience and better personnel might improve Geno's numbers, especially INTs.  You see and have always seen massive foundational errors in Geno's game, which I've never seen.


In fact, I commented when I was in Cortland the first weekend and lauded Geno for his technical proficiency.  And, as even you recognize, he's improved on his technical failings.  He steps up in the pocket more, he secures the ball better and he's improved a little his accuracy when he's in motion (he still has to set and throw rather than back foot it).


I just think he's a very talented kid with lots of upside...more than any rookie QB to hit the Jets since Jeff Blake, who should've beaten out Browning Nagle, hence my concern that comments about Geno remain colorblind.

levi
levi

@a57se Ive read SDs comment a couple times trying to figure out why you have such a problem with it and I came up with nothing.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Talk about moving goal posts. 


Jesus Christ, man, give it a rest. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se SD might be the most objective person here that isn't Bent. It's pretty insulting for you to insinuate otherwise, I've been reading his commentary for years now and it's consistently fair and even-keeled. 


Put the guns away, 57. 

Bent
Bent

@a57se @SackDance99 @BDarc23 I've shown just as many examples of Geno forcing a pass when he should have checked down too.


When and where to check down IS a skill that needs to be learned and that was a fair point by SD99.  Your response was unnecessarily hostile.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I'm sorry? You're the one who called me "irrationally optimistic." Another stupid, tired, and baseless criticism people love to lob in my direction. 


There hasn't been anyone harder on Brian Winters than me. I still endorse bringing in another QB next season. I thought the team's best-case was 9 wins, and they still have a shot at getting to 8. 


I'm not irrationally optimistic. I'm realistic, it just bothers you that my objectivity contradicts your biased-based criticisms of certain people/players. 


No goal posts are moved, don't devolve into Hank the Third and use that any time I make a good point. 

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se@Brendan@SackDance99@BDarc23Then, why do you always say that I'm comparing Geno to other (and usually better) QBs when I'm not?


Your Geno-hatred is so apparent it's at this point humorous.  If I had mentioned Andre Ware, Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf, you wouldn't have said a thing.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se 


Hey everybody! If you predicted a 9-7 record this year you were IRRATIONALLYoptimistic. 


Keep swinging, though, you're bound to land one eventually. 

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se@SackDance99@BDarc23Why should I leave top QBs out of the answer when I'm discussing a football topic that isn't directly related to Geno?


Let me educate you.  The checkdown is never the first option, it's usually the last option.  If you're a QB that is confident and has the arm-strength and accuracy to place a ball anywhere, then you'll naturally be reluctant to go to the checkdown.  It takes experience, game awareness and a certain humility for a QB to say to himself, in nanoseconds, that "Yeah, I can thread that pass in there for 30 yards, but I'll check it down to get the 1st down."  If you have a QB that goes to the checkdown all the time, you'll have a QB that constantly misses big play opportunities.  If you have a QB that never checks down, either the QB doesn't go through his progressions quick enough or has foolhardy confidence in his abilities.  

Knowing when and at what times the checkdown is the best play just takes years of experience.  So, I can't get down on Geno, or any young QB, for not checking down because it's a learned trait.  And, for the record, Luck still has to learn to check down better.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se The way you seem to misinterpret his comments speaks otherwise. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se @SackDance99 @BDarc23 You're insufferable again. 


SD was simply giving examples, no one is taking those comments to mean Geno is on the level of those QB's. Stop fishing for arguments. 

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se@SackDance99@BDarc23You always do this and it's annoying.  I wasn't comparing Geno to any of those QBs, I was saying that learning to checkdown isn't as easy as it sounds.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57seI actually think it's muddier than good v. bad defense.  At home, Geno beat and played well against Tampa Bay (no. 7 per FO), New Orleans (no. 11 per FO) and Buffalo (no. 4), but played poorly against Miami (no. 16).  On the road, he played poorly against Buffalo, Cincy (no. 5) and Baltimore (no. 7).  I'm in the minority, but I thought Geno was competent against Carolina (no. 3) in that I thought defense and special teams deserve as much blame as he did for the loss.


Maybe as Bent posits it's the lack of having Kerley and/or Holmes.  But, generally, Geno has just been inconsistent, which is not surprising for a rookie, especially on the road.

Bent
Bent

@Brendan @Bent @SackDance99 @a57se 


He has an 89.3 rating when they win - dammit we should have won every game then he would have played well!


He also has an 89.3 rating against the NFC - who knew the designated hitter rule had that much influence?


More seriously though, his rating when ahead or level is 81.5 which says something about how his numbers have been worsened by the team falling behind and him trying to force matters.

Brendan
Brendan

@Bent @SackDance99 @a57se @Brendan A year of rookie play at an 80 or so QB rating would be a good rookie season. 


His skill position players were hurt all year and Winters has been a disaster, it's tough to hold him responsible for both of those issues. 

Brendan
Brendan

@SackDance99 I understand to a degree the impatience of Jets fans. It's almost like Rex's early success screwed him for the future, but we as fans have an obligation to be understanding to the ebbs and flows of NFL life. Unless you're that one-in-a-million team that lucks into a HOF QB, you're not going to have a decade of winning in this league. 


As for Geno, everyone should have expected a slump, it was just a very severe slump and it seemed like it would never end. Hopefully he finishes strong so he has a season that breaks down up into 3 parts: first 7 games (up and down), middle 5 games (down), final 4 games (up) and he gives a reason for optimism going into next year. 


But, as we both know, there are fans that have written him off regardless of how he finishes the year. 

t__k
t__k

@a57se @Brendan That's ridiculous on so many levels.  You wouldn't rather have the Colts skill players than the Jets!?  C'mon.  You're so full of it.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@Bent@a57se@BrendanFor instance, in his last 2 games, Geno is 31-53-386, 58.5% completions, 2 TD-2 INT, 11 rushes for 96 yards and 1 TD.  I think that's progress given that he went through an awful 5-game stretch with 0 TDs to 8 INTs and had 12 rushes for 34 yards and 1 TD and had a completion percentage under 50%.


If Geno improves on his 2 game totals in his last 2 games, objectively, why shouldn't we as Jets fans be optimistic about his prospects?  Especially if he gets 8 rookie wins and I won't mention all the rookie QBs that he would best in that scenario, but I can state it this way, Andre Ware, Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf only had 10 wins in their entire careers.

levi
levi

@a57se Damn 57, did somebody kick your dog? Kiss my grits? haha

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Just digging a deeper hole, dude. 


Go for a walk or something for 10 minutes. Chill out and come back or whatever. 

Brendan
Brendan

@Bent Normally when Bent gives his fair and reasonable "look, let's just pump the brakes" talk it calms 57 down. It seems to have had no effect on him today. 

Bent
Bent

@a57se No, we've said before we don't want people to do that.


Not my call any more though.

Bent
Bent

@a57se @Bent @Brendan It does come across like you hate him.  You won't allow a single "excuse" for why he might not have been ready or shown significant progress throughout the season.


Maybe the fans that still have hope for him are homers or "relentlessly optimistic" or whatever, but that's okay because this is a Jets FAN SITE for FANS of the team to SUPPORT THE TEAM.


I'd rather you didn't treat everyone who does that like they're an idiot.  It's contrary to the community we want to build.

Bent
Bent

@a57se @Brendan The Sanchez/Eli comparison was reasonable to make.  Brendan and Sack themselves will have made it at some point.


It's fair to compare Geno with those guys.  Look:


Geno is not as good as Brady and probably never will be.


See?  I just did it.  And when Sack made a comment about Geno needing to improve in a certain area and then cited some good players that made that adjustment as part of their development, what's wrong with that?

Bent
Bent

@a57se @Bent @Brendan Look...  You constantly do this think where you ridicule a comment for being monumentally stupid and then get told by a bunch of people that you misread it.


Most of these guys are smart guys who know a lot about the NFL and I consider you to be as well.  So if you read a comment that you think is saying "Geno is as good as Brady, Brees and Rodgers" instead of flying off the handle and making strawman accusations, take a moment to consider that they probably don't mean that and then you might get some insight from what they ARE trying to say.


Nobody is going to say that Geno is on his way to being Peyton Manning with a straight face, so reading a comment that way is just going to come across like you're accusing the other person of being an idiot (which, if they said something like that in all seriousness, you'd perhaps have a right to do, but no-one here is that dumb).

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Not trying to be difficult, but I haven't the slightest clue what you're asking here. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Haha yes it does! That's why you're the only person taking these comments that way. 

Bent
Bent

@a57se @Brendan The only reason he raised Luck is BECAUSE he's obviously much better than Geno...to illustrate that even the good ones can have turnover issues as a rookie.  Again, your response is unnecessarily hostile.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se @Brendan Their OL was average at pass blocking, not poor. 


And Wayne/Donnie Avery/Hilton/Dwayne Allen/Fleener was definitely better than Injured WR/Injured WR/Very injured WR/Injured WR/David Nelson/Cumby.  


I'm not cherry picking anything, you have convinced yourself based on the eye test and can't handle the fact that you are being proven biased. 

SackDance99
SackDance99

@Brendan@a57seBrendan, there's no winning this debate.  Reggie Wayne is a top WR and is always open.  He had 75 receptions with the turd-fest at QB for the Colts in 2011.  Of course having a healthy Wayne would make things easier for Geno, but a57se just can't cut Geno any slack.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Really. You wouldn't? Now you're just being difficult. We're talking last year with 100% healthy Wayne. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Refer to SD's comments. 


You are the one comparing them in a vacuum. I would rather have the Colts' ball handlers than the Jets', no? 

gbrownn
gbrownn

That was my point too. And that all qbs good or bad need some damn talent around before a fair evaluation can take place. Whatever tho, Ill save all my debates for when we get discuss back lol

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Don't turn this into a "Geno vs Luck" debate, please. My point was that every rookie QB, even the ones that are considered great out of the gate, have turnover issues. 

gbrownn
gbrownn

I never said Geno could, just basically saying I hate the media potrayal of our team and our players.  You're right though, Luck is soo much better, Im sure our stud #1 reciever Stephen Hill  would be putting up madden numbers with Luck as QB.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se@Brendan@Neil HerschkowitzLuck had better options.  Reggie Wayne is a sure-fire HOF'er, Fleener played with Luck at Stanford, Allen was the top TE prospect in the draft and TY Hilton was the perfect deep-threat to match with the talent underneath.  Wayne had 106 receptions!